What Makes a TECH Leader Game Changing?.

well what can I say it's been months in the making if not years in the making welcome everybody my name is Nadim ibraim I'm the host of Brew bites and today I can't think of anything better than to kick this off with a great topic cracking the code which is redefining leadership in technology and today I have my very first guest Nal hello who I might say is a close friend of mine good friend of mine that I've built over my time in Dubai and somewhat I think over the years you get to know someone for not what they are as a person who they represent in a company but over time you get to know them for something they truly are and everyone's got a double life this to say right as I got to know no I realized that she's one of the evangelists in our industry especially when it comes to thought leadership welcome the well welcome to the first one the first episodes congratulations okay but before we go into things you know I like to ask my guest which is you know as a child what was your go-to

game oh wow it was actually Super Mario you know remember that game boy we used to have yeah and actually my grandma got it for me really yeah on which console was it right yeah it was like this game boy console like that the one that was like gray color with two purple buttons I can can't remember it till really yeah you go to like everyday type of thing or you yeah cuz it was like easy to do like to use and it was very like I don't know if you remember that but it was like the charge where you put it in there and that's the game yeah like that's it like a floppy disc but there shown showing our age now right yeah and it was just like black and green screens yeah M mine was more I don't want to give too much away but H I actually was speaking to someone today and they reminded me of the attack oh yeah the Atari right the Atari was one amazing console that for me actually if I go one step back my father actually bought me a spectrum that's where you used to have the cassettes and

you put it in and he used to make this horrible noise and then you wait 15 minutes and then not until your brother comes in and presses stop then you have to go all the way back oh and then reload the game again yeah so that was a bit of a yeah a weird thing anyway so today we're going to be talking about leadership and coaching right yeah which is a passion point of yours and something that as was s of mentioned at the beginning of this is you know your time in this industry has predominantly been around Tech yeah you know love to hear a bit about like this tell the guys who you are and then this go into this we dig deep into sort of what leadership actually is and how you have sort of start started to adopt this as a another profession I'll go back like in time I'll take you through a memory lane here I think it's like 15 14 15 years ago when I joined the industry and it was so different it was when you know internet has just went into things and social media

started growing and you know like in terms of like advertising and what what's there from a SAS perspective it was merely just a media game and looking back into where we are today from today to where we were I'm an ow really things have been changing in an exponential rate and that made me who I am today right so this Dynamic of this changes the Dynamics that are happening it made me into an emergent leader that I like to identify for today and more so it also grew me on the empathetic side of things right because you know being in Dubai and a and in a very diverse Community it taught me lot about so many cultures so many different perspectives that are coming in and without empathy and act of listening you know it would be very challenging for people to you know find synergies and do great things together MH and do you find that there's different types of leaders that you've experienced over your time yeah and can you maybe just maybe like let us

know in what kind of leaders you get out there yeah you know like during my when you were within a leader when you were the leader you would see them as Visionary or people's person and whatnot but then when I went into studying about Executive coaching I realized that there are actually five type of leadership so four that are predominantly that are there or personas right that are there there's the leader from the front which is the Visionary leader the one that takes his team forward you know like full of passion there's the leader from beside which is basically more on the collaborative side of leadership so this is the team that actually loves to work together make things together and drive the company forward there's also the leader from behind which is a very valuable leadership type as well and basically these leaders are more on the empowering side so they push their team out there they kind of like you know they make sure their team are fully set to be in their position and

then there's the leader from the field so this is the thought leader in the market that basically brings in the thought leadership pce over so what kind of leader would you say that you are now that you've given all these like was it four or five you just mentioned there right I love to know like how you would s assess yourself and not you know like I would say like people would actually see me as a challenger I've always been in the market challenging the status quo wanting to drive that agenda further within my day to-day I love and enjoy being a collaborative leader so this is where I love to work with team members who come from diverse set of backgrounds to really bring something Innovative forward to our clients and to solve for major business but how find it like in Dubai itself it's one of the fewest places on the planet where we have such a diverse bunch of characters from different backgrounds different countries different everything is different right and it requires a

certain skill yeah you talk about being collaborative yeah and bringing these people together how do you do it through your coaching like what would be the right technique if somebody's listening right now and watching is how would you what a piece of advice would you give them to be able to collaborate with all these different exper all these different you know characteristics in the room yeah if I were to choose two lenses to see this from it would be or basically skill sets it would be curiosity okay asking really powerful questions you know being curious about what's said behind that is being said and most importantly from a second lens is Vision right so once you're in there and you're aligned on a vision that you're trying to achieve here everything then falls into place right so these were if I were to choose these would be the two aspects yeah okay I don't I really was hoping not to ask this right what kind of leader am I then well and now you know I

would say that you're a leader from the front explain why I am just curious like why you like you love to you're bold you want to drive things forward you're a very risk taker you're risk averse so I would yeah I would say that you definitely have that and you have like there's things you want to do you know that drives you do you find though that there's not the right leader out there right like no there's no one right leadership for sure okay we're going to come on to we're going to come back to this in a second what I wanted to really sort of get into is around about the taboo and experiences through coaching and Leadership right yeah like throughout your journey okay and this is probably this is going back in time for you right throughout your journey of how where you are today in Dubai you know where is the Dubai dream for many you know is this maybe go through that taboo because that taboo is starting to sort of or stereotype I know when we had our chat initially

you're like it's not a Tabo anymore you know remove the word taboo which is very interesting to know because many countries still have a form Tabo or stere stereotypes that they're breaking down we see this in many of our you know Sister countries around Dubai right we're going to hold on to that we're going to come back to that the different types of leaders that they are okay but I would love to get into you know your experience of how you got to where you are because you would have experienced different types of tabos stereotypes you know how long have You' been here in 15 years right and you know I've been in Dubai 5 years and over 5 years things have changed so much let alone what 15 years would have been like and the next 5 years or 10 years in Dubai is going to be completely different and we see what Saudi is doing right now is completely different than maybe 5 years like now friendship here right now like can you just maybe this I would love to get a

bit of insight of your journey through to how you got to from the minute that you left Lebanon for example oh wow I might get emotional I'm joking look I still remember the moment I decided to leave and come to Dubai it was a very emotional moment I come from a very small City called Sida sidon and I always saw myself like saw Lebanon which is great it's a great country and I wanted I always saw Dubai as a dream for me it's an international City it's full of opportunities and you know like the moment I decided to come it took me like a week and it was just a week I got my interviews in got a job offer one week I was in Dubai it was just like that crazy coming in from I was very young I was 21 at that time you know and coming in with the little experience that I have and the character that I have and I started navigating through Dubai as an adult you know and looking at I remember since you went into the diversity part the first one of the first meetings

that I had was actually a table full of where I was looking around it and I was like Wow there are 14 nationalities on this table like wow you know and everyone speaking okay English they come from the same Lang we're talking the same language however it's like you know like it's very diverse and they all have their backgrounds there and I was very young and I was like wow where is this going to take me MH fast forward into now and looking back at things I really felt that there has been a lot of work that has been happening right whether that's gender by whether that's you know stereotypes or work life balance especially for women or expectation from the society on women and what is your role and how is you know getting into the workforce and actually growing within that work Workforce and what implication does that have on you and you know looking at it now I think we have had a major acceleration in the tech World 28% of women make up from make up the

workforce which is a great acceleration yet on gender parity we're 135 years away wow yeah can you maybe which countries so this is within the Min region we talking about the Min region what's the Benchmark like want to like minimize that to what's say 50 in terms of how do we grow women but that's not really I think the question would be more on what would it take us to have everyone live to their Pro true potential right so as numbers are very important but then also having the ecosystem around you really you know work making it easier for you to show up to give your to give it to your full potential this is what really matters more than just a number out there right and that means there's so many systems that we need to be looking at whether that's from the hiring systems to the promotion systems to even you know looking at schools and universities and how they you know kind of set up women and men for the future so there are so many

lenses to look at from that Dimension and what was your biggest how did he end up coaching and Leadership was it something that prompted you to do this was it something Co really it's always Co I hear a lot of stories about Co you know coover was the time where you kind of like calmed down yep yeah and you basically cuz I had a very like larger than life kind of like wildli out there you know like I was doing a lot of things all at the same time very busy okay and then coover happened and with Co you know you're kind of sitting there you're like okay now I start get getting into these existential questions and you know like what's happening in the world what's out there it's like a pose button that was pressed and I won't hide that it was actually very you know coming from like being someone very social to being like stuck in your home it was very tough for me but then in Dubai was very tough in Dubai it was very t for in the UK it was even worse for like 18 months and maybe

something else would have happened to me in the UK but that I think it was what two months three months but that I took it so seriously because I really wanted to protect my family as well yeah but that means that I also limited myself from a lot of social interactions which turned out to only be on video calls and whatnot and that moment that pose in my life made me want to really reflect on what matters to me what I really what am I missing like how can I live a further fulfilled life how can I wake up every day with you know my energy like wake up every day and like yeah let's go let's get it done what do I want to accomplish today and it needs to be something that really drives you from within right and I met out of like a I met a coach and she was giving a speech and I was like I connected with that lady and I was like how does this work okay and then I went into it The Full Experience I got coached on and she was my coach and it was a transformational journey for me I

wouldn't say that coaches fixes people but it more like holds the mirror and that was the first thing I remember the first time we sat together and she was like I'm not here to fix you I'm here to raise the mirror and in that moment from there onwards I can say like I went so much into coaching and I was like so curious about her coaching techniques and what she's doing and you know the questions she's asking and then reflecting on how that made me more aware about my triggers and something like around imposter syndrome and like all of that cuz you know High Achievers imposter syndrome they kind of like correlate in some cases and that is when I discovered coaching and then I went into it I was like this thing drives me this drives me did you find when you started when you started go into coaching itself though is this did you experience any challenges along the way where you thought I ever going to be able to put this to good use yeah because there's having a vision yeah and actually being

able to practice that and change lives or even you know change a person for what they are I still remember you know me and Noel actually had a conversation this has gone back a year back I think it was yeah I at a coffee shop you remember I do and we were talking just about business stuff in general and I could sense Nal was doing something that was very odd and this is where I came to realize that you had been you know going through your coaching and leadership course and suddenly you started to just navigate your way through my questions to get to something that was very deep and unpicked a lot of emotion inside me I was thinking I saying to you I don't know what's going on with me right now but I'm feeling like this and I'm on the verge of probably bursting crying right now but you're doing something and then think you took a pause and says I shouldn't be practicing this on you because we shouldn't be doing this with you close friends right yeah there must have been something though you know

from your own personal life that would have had you want to coach right was your mom or father like leaders in the house where you took inspiration from I actually I'll surpris I wanted to do psychology okay and then there was like you're going to work with lunatics so that was the awareness back then right I actually I loved how my dad was there for me really like he was a great listener MH and not just listening like the way he believed in me the way he trusted me the way he empowered our relationship and I'm I'll be very I'm not an easy person you know like there's I have so many things that on my mind I want to do a lot of things and I you know I'm a risk taker you know parents get scared you know but he trusted me and he encouraged me and he put me out there he let me leave the house when I was 21 to travel to another country with full trust and encouragement that really if looking back that really was the ignition yeah

that's a former leadership in the household oh to be to push you right oh yeah and I'm sure you know from what I know you've took a lot of inspiration from that you know and when you sort of unlocked whatever emotion you unlocked through me kind of brings me on to my next sort of we want to get into another space of coaching and leadership in the tech space like this perception okay of the leaders of today and the leaders of the future yeah have you found that you know with leaders of today that they have to readapt themselves or optimize themselves to become relevant and related to the way you know cultures are today in especially in the tech industry you know it's forever changing and then you also have you know we are in you know one of the hubs of new startups true whether it's from here or in Saudi and do you find that you know they have to adapt a new style of skills of coaching because you know if you are have your own startup and you've got employees of

three or four yeah your leadership skills are going to be very different this face it true but you might have experiential growth in maybe one or two years that you suddenly have 80 people and then your leadership has to adopt and then you have the CEO today who's been the CEO for maybe like 10 years or so and to go through Co and pre-co and postco you know like what would you say if you know for these current CEOs or current leaders perhaps not CEOs I say this current leaders and then the newbies of the Future Leaders of today yeah you know what is it that they need to pick up let's take a pause here yeah I was looking at an article that was a recent report that was released by Harvard Business School and it the first thing it started with is around leadership and the global leaders and the first thing they tapped into is what are the updates on the leader objectives right and from there you would see that the first pillar is polarities and paradoxes and how leaders would show up

in these situations because it needs a leadership skill to be there there's another pillar which is the skill set right so there has been a lot of changes in the skill set 10 years ago today the toolings the we need some kind of like SK new skill sets to continue delivering great results today but then also build for the future and then there's also the potentializing is basically which is the New Concept that is being built I think it's not very new but it is now more prominent especially in the tech or any companies that has a tech depart infrastructure within it as well potentializing basically supporting and coaching people to in your team to live up to their full potential right you need them currently to deliver on such roles but then they have dreams as well they have career plans they want to go somewhere right how can you guide them through it and another report that basically showed currently that only 15% of people would look into their direct

leader as a coach only 15% wow cuz I always believe that my philosophy has always been that you want to surround yourself with smart people or people who you aspire to be you know you want to be like them you and still to get this yeah and it was so much eye opening to me and the first reason for that was because of their listening their presence of the leaders of the leader with their team okay right the way the engagement is happening is not helping them to open up to show their vulnerabilities to be okay in showing up their vulnerabilities to their manager for example or even more so in the way they're being asked a question right how is that manager a question can be asked in many different ways and it can go from judgmental all the way to how I can help right with different choices of words and more so on active listening and you know fun fact people can our Watchers can research more about that there are actually three levels of listening oh go so yeah there and I'll be very

barely get me up but you're listen you're listening two and listening three levels right so you're with it you're you do this is the most have I should listen to you yeah wow amazing and maybe not but what are the three what are I'm intrigued now the three levels of listening so when I'm talking to you right now you might be in your head and you're thinking about your next question so you're not really listening to me right and level two listening is actually you're listening to me and you are listen to me you're not just hearing the words that I say you're listening it with the energy that I'm giving you're listening to it when there's an excitement or when there's like a lower energy in play or there's scaredness not just the words right and then the third level of listening which is how you're immersing yourself in the place and that is within that because I'm with

coactive coaching so that's the method that we go with and that has changed a lot of things that has changed everything based on what you know when you're in a discussion when you're in a session and even when you are let's say the tough I'll give you an example the toughest discussion would be with someone you don't agree with Y how many times do we face that on our day today every day yeah you you're coming in you're agitated already you're not up and up you're just there to prove yourself and leave or to make a point and you know that the objective of the conversation is not really to and even much more on your direct report I need you to do this and I need you to trust me and there's a lot of triggers that are happening there's a lot of personality that's coming into the table without actually you know being engaged in a conversation is that a cultural thing you think as in like what we thought a good leader would look like yeah because

we're talking about you know leaders who have been leaders for you know 10 years or so and then new leaders right so this is specific to leaders who have been leaders for quite some time right yes I would say yes and no because even new leaders usually what's happening right so high Achievers they're doing great right they get promoted they become people managers yes right usually that's what's happening let's say 80% of the time they come in the first thing they do they project okay right how does that change though if you're a leader from the side leader from the front does that change though no that doesn't matter right because as long as you understand what kind of leader you are and you have full awareness to what kind of leader you are your team will be okay with whatever that is present right but what you're saying is that the major maybe not the majority but some leaders are projecting is this projecting this is what success look like this is how you

should behave this is when I was in your shoes I did that great we're not the same people we're not the same what's Str enough for them to be like that then I think it's experience okay I believe it's experience but then and also believe that you know when you're coming in as a new leader there's a lot to also know about yourself there it's a new chapter right so this is and it's great you say that cuz that moment that we had where you really try to unpick me unfairly I would say Okay I you know you did say something about self-awareness and that's stuck with me since then probably one of the reasons why we're doing this right now as well for self-awareness you know is that what's lacking with majority of leaders of Legacy leaders I would say because I think you know and it comes into another space I want to talk to you about is the genes of leaders yeah so what is the difference in do you think the genzies don't hold this way of they have their

self-awareness versus those who yeah we've done a lot of research of agencies I think yeah to the level that they stop labeling us aeny but okay we're going to still label them for now just for a further session their generation has access we never had right with that access they grew into different we can't say all genes are the same but let's say the ones that are very passionate that have very high self-awareness on their values right MH what is okay with them what is not their boundaries and you know saying oh I want hybrid work to be an actual thing in the work for in the workplace like I don't want to come in from 9 to 5 why are you making me do that you know and there's so many other things as well right like mental health days and whatnot there's a lot of ask that's coming in from their end and look they are the future yep right and we need to listen to them we need to understand them as well as much as Bridge them towards us we also need to meet them halfway right

so there needs to be I believe it will be like a formation of what the how redefining leadership would be through jz's authenticity and values that they really carry very heavily with what advice would you give to those current new leaders to say right you have a tech company in Abu Dhabi or in Saudi to BU anywhere in the GCC right now okay you're young yeah you know and a lot of leaders are young now as well yeah so what advice would you give them to Future proof themselves based on them being a leader yeah I'll tell you my point of view but then I want to also talk about a different dimension a different lens of this my point of view is it all start with building relationships right what kind of relationship you want to have with your team and how are you showing up as a person when things get tough and when things are easier that all defines the kind of leader you are to that team now a step back as well on this is that when you get into a leadership position there

are two spectrums to look at there's the lead leading of volumes which is like you know the workload everything that's happening and you need to have a very strong Vision Without A Vision if your team can't see the vision you're seeing how can they contribute to it how can they be aligned with it how can they stay engaged and you know support it and row with you in the same direction right and then there's the horizontal lens that horizontal lens is the skill set that you gain right where are What are the skill sets that I need on my team to actually get them and this is where collaboration comes in and this is where you get in to the creativity and Innovation part of your work where you bring in people from diverse backgrounds within that skill set and manage or lead that team further and you know as an individual contributor or as a high achiever that has been recently promoted this is this not something you have been seeing on a day-to-day basis right and when you get

into that new position you need to start looking at things from interesting you say di you kind of find that a lot of new tech startups that come in are people who come from you know Tech backgrounds themselves right they've built a new piece of tech that they want to put in the marketplace and they have their own skill sets I work with a diverse bunch of different people who are extroverts introverts I can't remember the name of the theory behind it but you're a color you can either be a red blue or green or a hub right I think it was a hub red for me where I go into conflict quite quickly and but I've met a lot of a lot of individuals who specialize in they say data and engineering and they're greens yeah but what I have found is with most of them when they end up in leadership roles they often find it very difficult to be able to adjust because they suddenly dealing with people who work in PR or they deal with people who work in marketing very fluffy and very

Visionary and then they start to lose control of things and then for them it becomes they become the introvert of all introverts yeah I mean I'm trying to sorry anyone who's listening in right now I'm not stereotyping any individual where if they come from a tech background but it requires a different skill and especially with young individuals we said we want label as gen Z's who are coming into this space and then suddenly are up against the big tech companies and they've had rapid growth you know how would you advise someone who comes from a technical background that has to adjust and deal with these people what would be the first like two or three pointers you would give them to sort of put them at ease that you know leadership is either you bring it you build it through life experiences the ups and the Downs yeah or you can almost take a step back today and say I want some coaching to help prevent me in these obstacles fabulous I love that question you know and

I will tackle it from based on studies that has been done the first one that I recall on top of my mind is McKenzie they found that as much as you can have an Engaged culture internally which is basically driven by Vision by having you showing up as a leader that as a person to the company it showed that 33% of them won over peers the other one is how can you as a leader drive an inclusive culture and let's look into what's inclusive and diverse culture is basically having everyone's voice heard right heard listened to appreciated you know with all the when you're a leader you know like there there's a lot of stress that is coming on you there's a lot of fast decisions you need to make and there's a lot of like pressure let's be honest right you're under IM massive pressure but then research saw that if you have if you take a chunk of your time and you dedicate that to building a more inclusive culture right decisions are 87% of the time okay which is out standing

especially in fail fast like do fast fail fast kind of like you know mentality especially in the tech world where you kind of like build something you let it fail fast let go and move on if that becomes less by like nothing it's 87% of the time you're actually getting it right that's amazing yeah Y and the third one is basically when you look at mentorship and coaches I believe in a culture of coaches and mentors having that like having that giving mindset when you're either giving your time or giving your knowledge or giving just your ear you know to a person that's working with you that you have been collaborating with on a day-to-day basis or mentoring someone you know on another team within your skill set and then growing them and witnessing and being with right that drives cultures forward and actually they've seen that productivity increases by 25% and that's according to Deo very interesting you say that

because you know through my being in this industry for 18 years in Tech and I think I would you know wherever I've been you know alhamdulillah I've been able to have the privilege to be able to nuture people yeah you know without realizing I'm nuturing them and I've had you know one guy from Australia who's now in New York you know he's you know done really well for himself self you know and then I've had a guy in the UK who also wants to come to Dubai now and he went off and did some good stuff after we saw a you know split separate ways where we worked before and even today where I am today you know nuring a bunch of very smart people and see them progress and evolve over time it's nothing more than just heartwarming to see that happen yeah especially people who do things for a passion and Tech when you're in Tech it has to be passion it has to be passion driven and I think having that level of passion feeds into you be you being that type of leader

that leader who thrives on passion will then nurture his or hers you know business and team to create I like to say I like to think of as a sense of community that you're building PS of communities within an organization and I see that more coming out of new businesses or new tech where you just have to look at their Aesthetics in their office space you know communial space breakout rooms you know Wellness space lactation space like there's a lot going on yeah you know and that's you know that's really so different yeah of what you see versus what we have seen and what we have probably you know witnessed through our journey going through out and sometimes you find that you know if you have to work in a new tech or a new business I just set up with a young leader it can often be a big adjustment as well cuz of course you know and that's not easy in itself you know and then it's not easy for that leader but it's not easy for that employee or that person who's coming to that workspace

you know but great conversation around this you know look we've spoke a lot about leadership and coaching and you know your amazing journey coming in and you know something that you know we I like to do quite a lot now is this diffuse away from I have a little bit of fun for a few moments okay so as you know I have been building you know I have we're in Tech this is all about tech culture guys okay and chat gbt has been training or trained based on Brew bit's approach and what it wants to sort of help achieve you know create a sense of Tech cultureal Community from the series that we do here so he's been trained it knows a bit about you and you know we're going to go what I call espresso encounters you know from Brew bites so I've got two cards here one card so two cards you guys two cards okay now one both these cards have got separate questions I feel like I'm in The Matrix right now blue pill don't have the blue pill or the red pill okay

one of these is a question that been left for the guest to answer and Converse a conversation with the other one will be our friend Mr GPT who essentially will pose a question knowing about you un known about Brew bites okay which we'll have to unpick so I'm going to give these two cards for you and this one you're choosing this one okay this one damn okay so we have our first question from Mr GPT themselves I'll say all right okay hey Nal it's great to have you on Brew bites we're thrilled to have someone with your amazing background in digital advertising and team building join us here's a fun question for you with the growing trend of remote work how do you see it affecting the culture of collaboration in Tech and advertising Industries will virtual workspaces spark new innovation or could they take away the energy of face- Toof face interactions wow CH okay all right look all right so there are I love to see it always from I I'll open two perspectives to this yeah right the

first perspective is look we have we are able now to do a lot more with the same amount of time with all the connectivity that we have I'm connected to the global teams I'm connected to a team member who have decided to take a holiday somewhere and stay to work back from home it gave a lot of freedom for people to actually be connected and do much more MH with the same amount of time it also bridged teams together so it was a very important meeting for you but you had to travel to a meeting somewhere else and you can't really attend it personally you still have the same experience and that is something we always faced right so there's a lot of more where are you based you will have a lot more focus and support and towards the other maybe team members in other countries right in terms of personal interaction it all depends on how companies have operated that right so personal interactions I believe will always be like this conversation that we're having imagine we're having it

online you know it will have a different feel to it right funny to say that and I love the question that Mr GPT has asked actually you know I'm not being biased I mean he is learning as we go along yeah but I actually when I before I came to Dubai I was going through an onboard in face of almost 18 months I was stuck in the UK M so 18 months of me having to sort of build a relationship a cold relationship yeah with my team members with people in the industry yeah even like meeting you online for the first time yeah that sense of chemistry is a very viritual type of chemistry a chemistry that I think is if you back in that time I would say it's it wasn't authentic but looking back I would say it was authentic because we do our day-to-day jobs in Virtual spaces pretty much true most of our calls that we have is on a monitor nowadays true and which is where you know I always say this's just have a face to- face meeting even if it's for 15 minutes because for some reason I get more out of the same

person in a face tof face 50-minute conversation than I we doing a 50-minute virtual conversation on whatever platform we using these days yeah you know so it's completely different and but what it's done though it's actually opened up I think a new economy an economy of virtual workspaces and also spaces where you have remote working from you know you have the likes of wework for example you know who sort of started you know started these sort of spaces where you know any new company can go in and before they sort of expand out but even that in itself had different ways of working so yeah I would say so anyway like you want add something yeah I actually think that also as a leader right when you are leading team usually like previously like traditional leaders would see their team work and they would get that sense of H okay they're actually doing the job right now with the hybrid mode and because it's continuing there's a value to it there is a value to it but at what

cost right and this is where companies that's why I'm saying it depends on the company right if it's a transactional company if it's a company that's more on operation side that really doesn't need team members to be there right face to face like in a and actually if they are hybrid it would work better for them great but if it's a company that's all about creativity and Innovation and it needs to like you know build itself further I believe that hybrid more in the workplace would also add a lot of value meaningful hybrid not just be there from 9 to 5 we're not talking about that right but then also changing the metric of performance and I think that is important because when we looking at the day-to-day come performance reviews right how are you going to evaluate your team members unfortunately some people would remember the last thing that they've done M and that's biasness and that's because there's a merit for connection and with hybrid modes it

might be missed So within that leadership to enable a sustainable hybrid workplace they need to relook at the metries of evaluation and how they work with their team and be extra clear with them in terms of communication and how they are directing them to the Future amazing look this has been a really interesting conversation that I've enjoyed every bit and the guys here behind the scenes I've enjoyed quite a bit Noel thank you so much for giving us your experience in into leadership and coaching and you know I'm sure the audience listening or watching will find this very motivational I certainly have find it motivational so thank Youk and H guys please subscribe listen in and share around thank you bye